Hi All,

So I gave some thoughts on flop c-bet, and although I think I kind of get the general idea and concept behind it, there are certain things that are quite baffling to me.  First, I'll just write down my thoughts on flop c-bet.  I'm not sure if I can put this well into words, but I'll try my best, and hopefully the flaws in my logic, or questions I have, will show up in the process.  I'd very much appreciate criticism, comments, etc.

Q. What do we have to consider when c-betting on flop?

1) Equity (our hand equity and fold equity) 

Well, after reading some postings and watching vids, the first things that come to my mind are our hand's equity and fold equity.  Given that hand equity runs rather close in PLO, I think fold equity is actually quite important, and probably the first thing we have to consider when debating on c-bet, especially in HU pot.  For example, if our opponent is folding pretty much always to our flop c-bet, we can just go ahead and c-bet 100% of our range except for rare occasions where we flop a HUGE hand and slowplay.  However, that's rather an extreme example, and in real life our opponents are gonna x/f sometimes, x/c other times and or even x/r.  And if they x/c or x/r on flop somewhat often, we should adjust accordingly.  That brings us to the next point..

2) How turn card(s) will affect the board and our play if we c-bet

So let's say villain called our c-bet.  In PLO, turn card often changes the board texture and/or the best hand, sometimes quite drastically.  That said, we should have a plan on different turn cards, as well as figuring out his range and thinking if they can call again on lots of turns (good draws), or just give up on turn unimproved (bare overpairs or bad draws).  

If we have a hand that can rarely improve on turn, we can check it back and try to realise equity on the river when we're IP, but we mostly have to x/f on turn when OOP, otherwise we are barreling too often with too little equity.  Which makes me believe that, when we're OOP, we don't want to c-bet relentlessly with a hand that has little potential to improve, unless the FE on flop is so great that we can just c-bet and take it down the vast majority of time. 

However, this leaves me with a question.  Let's say, we're IP with AJ93 and the flop comes KJ5ss.  If he x/c our c-bet, pretty much all hands in his range will have decent equity vs us, and there aren't many turn cards that improve us.  Moreover, there aren't many turn cards that we can profitably barrel on; Q/T will often improve his range, so will spades, and our visibility on A/9 are bad even though we kind of "improved" to 2 pair.  Also, he won't fold his Kx or good draws on 8-6 or 4-2 turns.  Maybe only good cards are J and 3.  

At the same time, if we check this back we're pretty much giving it up, as we won't check this flop back with any strong piece.  I mean, we can check back weak FD or QT and stuff like that, but for the most part our range is capped, and if he donks on the turn we can't really call without improving.  

That said, I think when we bet this flop we just want to fold out his equity.. but my question is, fold out what hands?  5x like Q865?  mediocre Kx or Jx?  Or weak bare FD?  I just can't think of too many hands in his range that a) has significant equity and b) will fold to our c-bet very often.  Likewise, is c-betting standard with KK74 on A95 board when we're IP/OOP?  Off the top of my head I'd c-bet this IP and probably x/f OOP, but I'm not really sure.

Is my thought process correct, or am I missing something?

3) Preserving equity or controlling pot by checking back

Now, let's think about a different scenario.  We have JsTs9h8h on the button.  MP opens, we 3-bet and he calls.  Flop comes KcJh3s, giving us a middle pair, weak gutter and two mediocre backdoor flush draw.  Let's assume the stacks are ~100bb deep.

I think we can consider checking back here.  For, if he has Kxxx it's often gonna be smashing this board, and there's a good chance he will x/jam, and we might have to fold out ~25%+ equity (two backdoor draws + gutter + etc) whenever that happens.  On the other hand, if we check back, there's lot of good turn cards that will help our range.  Any heart or spades will give us a flush draw, Q will give us the second nuts, J the trips, T/9/8 two pair, etc.  Granted, these cards won't always give us the best hand, but even if it doesn't, sometimes it will freeze the action and we can check back again.  And also, I think the hands that will fold to our c-bet won't have much equity at all, so I don't see much reason to c-bet with this hand, but maybe I'm wrong?

In short, when we have the best hand it's rather hard to get called by worse, nor are we folding lots of equity hands.  On the other hand, when we don't have the best hand we still have a reasonable amount of equity as well as backdoor potential, so I think checking back might be the best to "preserve" our equity and controlling the pot size at the same time.

Summary

That said, here's what goes on in my mind when I raised preflop, get called and see the flop HU (I tend to focus a lot more on our actual equity in MW pot, just because we have to get 2+ folds for our c-bet to be successful).

1) When I'm OOP: I tend to c-bet a bit less often when OOP, but my OOP c-betting range (or preflop opening range for that matter) tends to be stronger anyway, so it doesn't matter a whole lot.  I look at villain's fold vs c-bet, and if it's reasonably high I usually go ahead and c-bet, because it can be +EV in a vacuum, even if that means I check and give up when called.  But I also look at the board texture and see how it hits my perceived range and his, and I don't mind giving up on 853r board with AKJT, or x/c with QJT9 on 964 board.  

When called, I try to be *very* cautious on barreling again on turn, and will x/f a good amount of time, sometimes x/c and occasionally x/r, but mostly x/f.  Of course, I will still barrel on turns that either help my hand or range and devalues his.

2) When I'm IP: I'm more liberal about c-betting, because villains will x/f far more often when they're OOP.  That said, I c-bet with pretty much any piece of the board unless I know he won't easily give up.  If he won't, then I will look at the board texture, think about different turn cards that can change things, and occasionally check back flop with the intention of betting the turn (or sometimes raising his turn donk) with usually some equity.  If I don't have much equity at all, I either just go ahead and c-bet or check back and give up.  

When called, I barrel on some turn cards that will improve my range, or if I feel like his range is capped.  At this point I also have to think about triple barreling, whereas I would usually give up more often when OOP.  For example, if I c-bet 9853ssdd on T72ddh board and the turn is 3s, I can check back to realise my equity, or just barrel and bet most rivers, although I will almost certainly be behind when he calls on turn.  

Sorry for the tl; dr post, but I don't think flop c-bet in PLO is a very simple topic anyway :(  I'm very much looking forward to your inputs and comments!