A few thoughts on improving posts here
Posted by HawksWin
Posted by HawksWin posted in Low Stakes
A few thoughts on improving posts here
I just want to start out by saying that I am in no way, shape or form accusing anyone of anything in this forum. I myself am guilty of the things I am going to suggest changing here. Accusing is probably the wrong word but I can't think of a better word.
As we all know, there are several different poker forums across the internet and I am sure that most, if not all of us, visit and possibly contribute on these other sites. I, for one do, but I prefer here much more than those other sites. To be fully transparent, I am referring to Pokerstrategy, deuce+deuce and U.P. Of the three above sites, U.P.'s forum is by far the best quality content/excellent posters that you can tell are good players. That said, I still enjoy reading/posting in here by far the most. I have to say, the stuff in Pokerstrategy's forum is by far the worst forum of the three mentioned above. As for deuce+deuce, there are undoubtedly some very good players/posters there but as we all know it can be very caustic and many of the posts sound angry or demeaning. It doesn't help to belittle someone who doesn't have the experience/knowledge as you do. I agree some of the posts are trash and just looking for confirmation about some stupid bad beat or KK vs AA or whatever. However, that person might be familiar with the etiquette, etc and is serioiusly doubting his move. Anyway, enough rambling. I very much appreciate all of the contributors on this site, from the coaches down to the posters and love this site.
I remember back in the day, long ago, there were some very very good posters on "the deuce". MDoranD, BelugaWhale, CTS, Verneer, etc. Now, that was old school thinking (before solvers, etc) and seems archaic now, but this is where solvers got their start. I can't leave out Pokey. He was another great poster.
I bring the above up because it has to do with what I am suggesting here and I hope others here add their input too because there are always things we can get better at. So, on to the suggestions.
Number 1) I am noticing more and more people taking the hands people post and just inputting them into their Snowie or PIO or whatever solver type program they are using. From there, they take the information that they have "learned" and go into the forum and simply repeat what they saw or are seeing. In any situation, I just cant imagine that this is useful at all. Most of it is just copying what you have seen. I have done it and I kept making the same mistake I made in the hand I posted. Why? Because I copied something, remembered it long enough to post a hand or advice about a hand and then I forgot everything I learned about 10 minutes later. Same spot comes up, same player pool, same bet sizing tells and boom, I mess up again. How did I do that? I did that because the solver has been doing all the work. I read it once and now I am expected to somehow remember one single hand out of the 1000's we play. What we should be doing is working through the hand one street at a time with Pokerstove, Equilab, whatever program you prefer. We should be doing that with not only our hands, but the hands we post about in the forums. At least we are going to give ourselves a chance to really learn it/understand it and not just try to memorize it. If you are analyzing your own hands, take notes about the parts of the range you should take various actions with. Then and ONLY then, do you go to the solver, input the hand and see if you are getting a core understanding of what is right in various spots. If I was to put a number to it, you should be able to intuitively figure out maybe 60% of what the solver is going to do in equilibrium. This leaves the fringe and more abstract moves that the solver is going to make. If we get the core down, it's going to be much easier to start adding in the "fringe" plays. If we don't have the core down, the fringe stuff doesn't matter, it just leads to many problems post flop So, in short, lets not be the forum that just post what the solver says, call it "solver spew". Neither the reader or poster gets much value out of it. If any value at all. The crushers figured out what the solver was doing before they were even available and applied that work/knowledge to destroy limits.
Number 2) I think we can get more out of the posts here if he post them street by street. I knew it's more of a pain to post a hand with up to 4 different parts but I think the benefits drastically outweigh the inconvenience. This is especially true when a hand moves beyond the flop. Most of the time, myself included, we post a hand that gets to the river and it shows all 5 cards and sometimes results or clues to the results. When all five cards are showing and a poster is asking about river advice, often they shouldn't be to the river in the first place. A spot is usually misplayed much earlier on in the hand and that, in turn, creates the river situation that is not necessarily all that relevant since it shouldn't have happened in the first place. Honestly, preflop isn't all that interesting. Some play a looser style, some play a tighter style, blah blah blah. Glaring flop mistakes are pretty simple to fix. The flop is where the hand really gets started. So, my suggestion is for all hands be posted with preflop and flop only and the rest of the hand removed. This will eliminate unconscious biases that will occur when we know more information (turns and rivers) than what is available to us in-game. Posting this way will focus all of the attention on the particular decision at hand without knowing how things played out. Some of the best threads I have ever read were where someone would post a preflop/flop decision only and then all the attention/effort is focused on that decision point. No one knows if the hand ends there or continues on to later streets. Only after the analysis of that particular spot is exhausted does the hand move forward. I think we can catch errors much more efficiently and we wont spend our time on spots that we shouldn't be in, in the first place.
So, for example, you have a hand that that saw the river but the only part you are going to initially post is preflop/flop. I feel this will be a more effective way to stop the leaks and pool the opinions of the posting community in a situation that best replicates the decision process and doesn't introduce information that we can subconsciously use to skew our analysis. I would rather post a flop spot that I think is quite simple and standard and I get corrected by the community right then and there where we can cut the analysis and move on to the next hand instead of analyzing spots that really don't matter or they shouldn't occur very often.
Anyway, I was just thinking of these things while playing the other day and I figured I would post them here. I am hoping other better players will jump in and add their insights or tricks of the trade and we can get a good discussion going in this thread and also increase the quality of an already high quality forum where it is nice to post ideas, etc and not get flamed or yelled at or called stupid.
Thanks for reading.
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