Intro To 40BB PLO
Posted by Tom Coldwell
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Interesting vid Tom, thanks, having dabbled at some of the FTP games, will take this into action and see what happens......how did a History type get so good at Maths ? -) I actually have an 'A' level in Maths/Stats from many years ago and still find it grrrr...
I find it really inappropriate that someone makes PLO shortstacking videoes
Why - the shallow games on FTP are limited to 40bb buy-ins and seem quite popular - that is noticeably different to short-stacking at normal tables....not though that is unethical or wrong or anything anyway...
DonkPredator,I think that your opinion is really shortsighted. The best way to combat shortstacking is to understand it.
Sun Tzu puts it best: "Know thy enemy, know thyself".
There are plenty of times where you finish off a shortstack when playing a 100bb game, and knowing how to play these situations will help your bottomline immensely.
The concepts learned to play GTO shortstacked PLO applies to 100bb, even aggressive deep PLO when SPR can be very low on turns in 3bet/4bet pots, as well as tournaments... I agree fully with Jukebox.
Sounds like you hate it because you don't understand it...therefore you don't know how to combat it when a proficient ss sits in your 100bb game.
I wasn't thrilled to see a vid on 40bb PLO, but I think it's well done and (if you think of this as low SPR rather than shortstacking) provocative for players who do not play this shallow. I'm pretty sure I need to work a lot more on my math and SPR scenarios after seeing the math in this vid.
Glad you were able to take something useful away :)
All I will say is at the real micro levels on FTP ($2); you will struggle to get much fold equity....
that being said - some of the people have as much knowledge of good opening hands and hand strength post flop as I do about theoretical quantum physics [read none]...
Oh and Tom, please never swear with words such as vectors again.....like you I have an MA in History and can say hand on heart; 'A' level maths was the hardest I found any exam - just had total mental blockage with it... maybe that is why I'm not as good at poker as I'd like...
A quick hand I've just played to illustrate the points Tom made..
Hero is second to act with $1.09 ($0.8 max buy-in) and both villains have me covered..
Hero: Ac, Ah, Jd, 4h open raises 3.5x
Btn flats and SB 3-bets to 10bb
I 4 bet and all the money goes in pre...
Btn rocks up with Ad, Td, 7h Jc.... (SB had a half-reasonable hand with T987 3 spades)..
haha donkpredator :D
This is a very good video. Oh, and totally inappropriate!
Glad you enjoyed it :)
So... with that philosphy...isn't this site, or any material teaching people to play better, inappropriate?
Whether or not people want to play short stacked cash games, I imagine it does them some good to have at least thought about these things if you every play PLO tourneys. Good, too, to understand what short stackers are doing if you're ever playing against them, which, let's face it, you are. Good vid.
Glad you enjoyed the video :)
Comeon, 40bb vids, really?
Protip for those who take offense to 40BB vids: don't watch 40BB vids.
Hi Tom,
I've got a question about the required equity formula. Given that your SPR is smaller then 1.0, thus potsize is bigger then your stacksize, I get negative results at certain fold-equities. This happens because you substract a bigger number from your stack then your actual stack. FE*Pot/1-FE gets bigger then stack if SPR goes below 1.0, thus your subtracting a bigger number from stacksize. Am I missing something?
Tom, thanks. I occasionally play PLO live in a capped format (which promotes huge action) and your video has been very helpful to me. And ignore the whiners, it seems the deep stack PLO players who have the greatest animus against short stackers are typically set mining nits who are far worse for the games than short stackers.
I'd never wish to discourage negative opinions though, my job is to provide content for the community so it's always helpful when members express whether they find a certain topic helpful or not as it allows me to tailor future footage to as many of you guys as possible.
This video improved my winrate drastically. I didn't play aggressively enough and I didn't stack of light enough before.
How to adjust your 3betting range for shortstacked play? Do you 3 bet more or less than in 100bb games?
Regarding your question, I 3-bet a little less in short-stacked games (assuming similar opening ranges for my opponents) because I don't gain the same advantages shorter than I would in a 100bb+ game. Specifically, I don't get to wield positional advantage and initiative in a bloated pot over multiple streets as I do when deeper. More accurately, I 3-bet a tighter range in position (I am actually a little looser from the blinds 'cas I can just remove position as a problem by potting and then being able to stack any flop I want).
I also 3-bet a somewhat different range, weighted more heavily towards hands which perform well all in preflop, and less towards hands which flop well and/or require isolation (isolation itself being a less important concept short because of the reduced problem caused by reverse implied odds).
how about facing 3bet? 40-50bb deep
First thing first, what we do depends heavily on your opponent's range. My general approach is to 4-bet shove most anything with an equity edge, call the hands which flop reasonably well, and fold the stuff which really won't be able to continue often enough OTF.
Hi Tom, could you add the impact of the rake into your RFE formula? I think it will change the numbers quite a bit at smaller stakes? Thanks!
Good question!
I tend to ignore rake when doing calcs 'cas it changes with stakes and because we always have a margin of error in the estimations we're making (and because I'm a little lazy). However, if you wanna add it in you just need to adjust the sizes of the pots by removing from them the rake. Obviously in the example I gave, the $81.50 pot would be raked a bit (perhaps $2) so you'd adjust it down (perhaps to $79.50) as you're playing for less than the full $81.50. You'll need to know the rake structure(s) on the site(s) you play, but once you have that it should be pretty easy.
Hope that made sense.
Great video. I've no real intention to play 40bb plo (if that even exists anymore, I haven't seen it) but all the info on fold equity was very useful, thanks.
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