Cool vid :) I always wanted to ask why you dont almost never use that extremely popular 1/3 cbet strategy on dry boards in SRP. I have seen you use it on paired board but thats probably all. Is there a big difference in 6max and HU? Cause majority of 6max highstakes player do use it (vs BB spots SRP usually). I noticed you play more polarized style of play in these spots.
btw. what would be your bluffing range in spot where you didnt cbet 65s, turned flush and raised small turn stab?
Range advantage is way bigger in 6max in BB vs IP player situations. That's why it's more efficient to use it in that context. Could be used in hu but not that profitably.
I remembered I once played hu (5-10) against a regular who used like 90% 1/4th cbet though. I haven't studied it myself but it might make sense to reduce sizing in a spot where range advantage is not that huge as in 6max to challenge minimum defense frequencies (I'm speaking as more of an unbalanced approach though, theoretically if we are going to cbet as high as 90% we'd need bigger sizings (though it's true that by betting merged we will also have more value hands to compensate, I don't think it's at a high enough frequency to fully compensate it), but as I said maybe this 1/4th exploit some population tendencies that don't defend the minimum required vs that sizing.)
Yeah mostly agreeing with below, I think the reason that's so efficient in 6max is similar to why I'm able to use it more often in 3bp situations OOP. The guy calling is getting great odds and often ends up postflop with a substantially weaker range, but in HU when I'm opening 80-90% of hands that linear range advantage doesn't really exist in a bunch of spots. I'd probably just end up severely overbluffing and be hoping that villain won't adjust properly.
9:00 left table
Kevin, you r/f 87o vs 4x 3bet and later in the match you r/c A9o (saying you would do it at this stack depth - 200bb) and J3s.
Doesn`t 87o has less RIO concerns and benifits more from deeper stacks?
@12:00 right table you say "...its not bad enough [of a draw] to feel handcuffed into a raise or fold situation" what villain sizing on the turn barrel would you feel handcuffed into playing shove/fold on this texture with QTs?
Thanks! Great video, I would love to see multiple parts on this
It seems like Sauce was capitalizing on the fact that you didn't cr him at all on the flop iirc. I think Pio's response would be to develop a decent portion to cr him
We certainly need to be defending more vs such small sizing but seems like just calling more falls directly what he is trying to accomplish. All his marginal value hands now realize more equity than they previously did. I think this is a situation we need to be taking some conventional x/c hands to cr him even tho we are not used to or comfortable doing that.
I think this strategy from Sauce is strong because its impossible to make such ranges on the fly. What are your thoughts?
I agree to some extent, and I do expect that I developed a wider x/r strategy as this match went on. I've seen how wildly aggressive pio suggests us to play when we never face raises, and it does make sense. That said, I do think that we accomplish a very big % of the necessary counter strategy with solid defense, so often times I'll ease my way into the x/r game plan as I learn more about what his range is and how I think it's best to counter it.
6:50 43s turn lead, won't you have some Q8s, Q7s, 84s, 74s that would rather lead turn? Generally when playing HU I try to never bet a "zero equity" hand otf/ott but obviously there are some spots where it's ok to do so, and I'm not sure how to identify them.
A lot of these hands are either low frequency 3bets or are going to cbet the flop. Generally speaking, we will have to bluff some zero equity hands in some situations. It does effect how often you're allowed to bluff - we have to treat the ratio very similarly to river play - but there's nothing inherently wrong with the bluff.
wouldn't mind seeing this as 10 part series lol. great vid obv.
At 12min, wud u raise a hand like 76 versus his turn lead? what do u pick? A2/44 cud raise river ya but what about turn? U think he bets this size all 3 streets with his overpass? (40% potish)?
Also, at 35min with AK, when u bet on 762 so large, are u bluffing or betting? whats ur logic?
12min - I think hands like A6 or AQ/KQ actually make the most sense here to raise turn some frequency...his sizing is not super strong but really good overpairs and nut straights might be in this range to balance the weaker value/protection bets. Those combos should do the best job of removing them while not being obviously strong turn calls.
35min - I think this sizing is best for my whole range, and AK can fit in as a protection bet on flop that protects my range on some of the strongest cards for him (A/K)
thanks! ur point about using a6/aq/kq makes sense. but are we contiuning to barrel AK on turn in other hand? surprised u don't just check ace high, it beats a lot and folds out a lot of worse hands and none better (large bet!). it never picks up equity and i doubt on most turns we wanna develop check/call range.
I think we should barrel on some turns that are particularly good for my range, maybe like J-K and sometimes on an ace? Good blockers on the J/Q to strong combos and not much reason to develop a x/c range like you suggested. On cards like 5-T though it seems logical to have some x/c combos and I'd probably end up checking since our blockers are less relevant on those cards. It's really just AK that I plan to use this way, I do think we force some weaker calls on flop from AT-AQ or Ax bdfd for example.
12:40 QTss, I don't really understand the small sizing range, if Villain has a bunch of Ax otr due to his turn sizing, do we properly incentivize him to call worse than Ax otr (assuming that's our goal) with this size, especially considering we don't necessarily have an overabundance of bluffs on this runout? It seems more appropriate to just jam 6x+ for value and apply pressure on a runout that is relatively good for us at least at the tops of ranges.
^If we give you this range for jamming river it doesn't seem super problematic to jam all/most of your bluffs. By my calculations he needs 37% otr to have a profitable call with Ax and gets 42% here. If we drop K9ss-KQss from the range we get down to 37.
This is a really nice single size range, if I've decided Ax doesn't want to ever bet. I do think a separate analysis of whether or not I want to bet hands like A2-A5 is worthwhile, but it's totally possible that his frequency of having Ax is high enough that we want to only use the range you're suggesting.
Great Video. In the 97 hand at 31:26. You are saying that most of your profit comes from him having 7x. If that is the case, do you not think that building a strategy around an even larger river bet, like 3 or 4x pot or even larger is the highest EV strategy?
We have to be careful to acknowledge what the rest of our range is trying to accomplish here. As we continue to scale up our sizing in a chop situation, Ben will eventually be finding enough 7x combos that he doesn't need to call anything else to reach MDF. If that happens, our bluffs and our 7x chops are losing loads of EV. It's important to make sure we find a size that leaves incentive for him to call non-chops, and exploitatively I think it's quite important that our bluffs aren't required to get 7x to fold any % of the time to become profitable.
5min , we lead Ad7c on the 4th diamond river, how manyAd would you leave in a checking range in this spot?
also 5 more parts at this pace would be ideal for me
I like checking mostly when I have a 2 card nut flush here, especially something like Ad8d, since I remove his calling range and don't block the bluffs or stronger flushes that can still bet IP.
the 97o straight hand: do we hv enough bluffs to go that size? if we 2x overbet with all our 7x. if we play the hand w all our FD without pair thats like 15 combos only? i think we hv way more than 30 value combos
Yeah looking back at how I approached this, I don't think the plan was really to include any true bluffs. It seems kinda obvious to me now that I was trying to size such that betting {7x,97} would force Ben to call his 7x combos and lose a lot when I have 97. I'd have to pick another size with some 7x hands in order to make this work for a bluff range.
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Cool vid :) I always wanted to ask why you dont almost never use that extremely popular 1/3 cbet strategy on dry boards in SRP. I have seen you use it on paired board but thats probably all. Is there a big difference in 6max and HU? Cause majority of 6max highstakes player do use it (vs BB spots SRP usually). I noticed you play more polarized style of play in these spots.
btw. what would be your bluffing range in spot where you didnt cbet 65s, turned flush and raised small turn stab?
Range advantage is way bigger in 6max in BB vs IP player situations. That's why it's more efficient to use it in that context. Could be used in hu but not that profitably.
I remembered I once played hu (5-10) against a regular who used like 90% 1/4th cbet though. I haven't studied it myself but it might make sense to reduce sizing in a spot where range advantage is not that huge as in 6max to challenge minimum defense frequencies (I'm speaking as more of an unbalanced approach though, theoretically if we are going to cbet as high as 90% we'd need bigger sizings (though it's true that by betting merged we will also have more value hands to compensate, I don't think it's at a high enough frequency to fully compensate it), but as I said maybe this 1/4th exploit some population tendencies that don't defend the minimum required vs that sizing.)
Yeah mostly agreeing with below, I think the reason that's so efficient in 6max is similar to why I'm able to use it more often in 3bp situations OOP. The guy calling is getting great odds and often ends up postflop with a substantially weaker range, but in HU when I'm opening 80-90% of hands that linear range advantage doesn't really exist in a bunch of spots. I'd probably just end up severely overbluffing and be hoping that villain won't adjust properly.
4 or 5 parts? Ideal :) Good content!
Please make as many vids as possible to go through it, content was awesome!
One of the best videos on the site.
It's terrific at this pace seeing the strategy development. More please.
9:00 left table
Kevin, you r/f 87o vs 4x 3bet and later in the match you r/c A9o (saying you would do it at this stack depth - 200bb) and J3s.
Doesn`t 87o has less RIO concerns and benifits more from deeper stacks?
Thanks.
Good catch, I think you're right about this hand and perhaps I was distracted from the 200bb stack depth.
@12:00 right table you say "...its not bad enough [of a draw] to feel handcuffed into a raise or fold situation" what villain sizing on the turn barrel would you feel handcuffed into playing shove/fold on this texture with QTs?
With effective stacks at 12k, I think off the top of my head a small overbet around 5-5.5k starts to challenge the assumption that call > fold
OH BABY
Great video Kev. I vote for going through it all. Thanks.
Thanks! Great video, I would love to see multiple parts on this
It seems like Sauce was capitalizing on the fact that you didn't cr him at all on the flop iirc. I think Pio's response would be to develop a decent portion to cr him
We certainly need to be defending more vs such small sizing but seems like just calling more falls directly what he is trying to accomplish. All his marginal value hands now realize more equity than they previously did. I think this is a situation we need to be taking some conventional x/c hands to cr him even tho we are not used to or comfortable doing that.
I think this strategy from Sauce is strong because its impossible to make such ranges on the fly. What are your thoughts?
I agree to some extent, and I do expect that I developed a wider x/r strategy as this match went on. I've seen how wildly aggressive pio suggests us to play when we never face raises, and it does make sense. That said, I do think that we accomplish a very big % of the necessary counter strategy with solid defense, so often times I'll ease my way into the x/r game plan as I learn more about what his range is and how I think it's best to counter it.
amazing vid, please do a 17 part series imo.
6:50 43s turn lead, won't you have some Q8s, Q7s, 84s, 74s that would rather lead turn? Generally when playing HU I try to never bet a "zero equity" hand otf/ott but obviously there are some spots where it's ok to do so, and I'm not sure how to identify them.
A lot of these hands are either low frequency 3bets or are going to cbet the flop. Generally speaking, we will have to bluff some zero equity hands in some situations. It does effect how often you're allowed to bluff - we have to treat the ratio very similarly to river play - but there's nothing inherently wrong with the bluff.
Absolutely one of the best vids on the site. Really looking forward to a long series for this one.
wouldn't mind seeing this as 10 part series lol. great vid obv.
At 12min, wud u raise a hand like 76 versus his turn lead? what do u pick? A2/44 cud raise river ya but what about turn? U think he bets this size all 3 streets with his overpass? (40% potish)?
Also, at 35min with AK, when u bet on 762 so large, are u bluffing or betting? whats ur logic?
12min - I think hands like A6 or AQ/KQ actually make the most sense here to raise turn some frequency...his sizing is not super strong but really good overpairs and nut straights might be in this range to balance the weaker value/protection bets. Those combos should do the best job of removing them while not being obviously strong turn calls.
35min - I think this sizing is best for my whole range, and AK can fit in as a protection bet on flop that protects my range on some of the strongest cards for him (A/K)
thanks! ur point about using a6/aq/kq makes sense. but are we contiuning to barrel AK on turn in other hand? surprised u don't just check ace high, it beats a lot and folds out a lot of worse hands and none better (large bet!). it never picks up equity and i doubt on most turns we wanna develop check/call range.
I think we should barrel on some turns that are particularly good for my range, maybe like J-K and sometimes on an ace? Good blockers on the J/Q to strong combos and not much reason to develop a x/c range like you suggested. On cards like 5-T though it seems logical to have some x/c combos and I'd probably end up checking since our blockers are less relevant on those cards. It's really just AK that I plan to use this way, I do think we force some weaker calls on flop from AT-AQ or Ax bdfd for example.
More than happy to watch 10 vids like this !
+1 to 10 more videos on this!
+10000 to some of them by both of you!
Please make a full series like this very nice first video, well done! I enjoy watching all your videos very much!
Point taken, I won't waste any of the footage =)
I'll get to the specific comments soon!
12:40 QTss, I don't really understand the small sizing range, if Villain has a bunch of Ax otr due to his turn sizing, do we properly incentivize him to call worse than Ax otr (assuming that's our goal) with this size, especially considering we don't necessarily have an overabundance of bluffs on this runout? It seems more appropriate to just jam 6x+ for value and apply pressure on a runout that is relatively good for us at least at the tops of ranges.
Jam Riv Range
^If we give you this range for jamming river it doesn't seem super problematic to jam all/most of your bluffs. By my calculations he needs 37% otr to have a profitable call with Ax and gets 42% here. If we drop K9ss-KQss from the range we get down to 37.
Thoughts?
This is a really nice single size range, if I've decided Ax doesn't want to ever bet. I do think a separate analysis of whether or not I want to bet hands like A2-A5 is worthwhile, but it's totally possible that his frequency of having Ax is high enough that we want to only use the range you're suggesting.
This was awesome. Looking forward to seeing more of this.
Great Video. In the 97 hand at 31:26. You are saying that most of your profit comes from him having 7x. If that is the case, do you not think that building a strategy around an even larger river bet, like 3 or 4x pot or even larger is the highest EV strategy?
Looking forward to the other parts.
We have to be careful to acknowledge what the rest of our range is trying to accomplish here. As we continue to scale up our sizing in a chop situation, Ben will eventually be finding enough 7x combos that he doesn't need to call anything else to reach MDF. If that happens, our bluffs and our 7x chops are losing loads of EV. It's important to make sure we find a size that leaves incentive for him to call non-chops, and exploitatively I think it's quite important that our bluffs aren't required to get 7x to fold any % of the time to become profitable.
5min , we lead Ad7c on the 4th diamond river, how manyAd would you leave in a checking range in this spot?
also 5 more parts at this pace would be ideal for me
I like checking mostly when I have a 2 card nut flush here, especially something like Ad8d, since I remove his calling range and don't block the bluffs or stronger flushes that can still bet IP.
the 97o straight hand: do we hv enough bluffs to go that size? if we 2x overbet with all our 7x. if we play the hand w all our FD without pair thats like 15 combos only? i think we hv way more than 30 value combos
or we also bluff some stuffs like Ah, and Kh blocker OTT?
Yeah looking back at how I approached this, I don't think the plan was really to include any true bluffs. It seems kinda obvious to me now that I was trying to size such that betting {7x,97} would force Ben to call his 7x combos and lose a lot when I have 97. I'd have to pick another size with some 7x hands in order to make this work for a bluff range.
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