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$50/$100 HUNL vs. Kanu7 Session Review (part 2)

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$50/$100 HUNL vs. Kanu7 Session Review (part 2)

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Phil Galfond

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$50/$100 HUNL vs. Kanu7 Session Review (part 2)

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Phil Galfond

POSTED Feb 10, 2013

Phil continues his HU match vs Kanu7 and stresses the importance of looking beyond the fundamentals and keying in on reads and game flow dynamics.

Part 1

Part 3
Part 4
Part 5

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Francisco Rocha 12 years, 1 month ago
in the last hand (65s on QA6dd, 3r) you think about shoving the turn... but, don't you think this is a spot where you are going to just call the raise with your entire value range? I mean, is very hard to build a balanced range for shoving the turn because isn't enought value hands to compensate all the drawy hands you are going to have there
Phil Galfond 12 years, 1 month ago
If his range is polarized, perhaps raising smaller than a shove is best with most of my raising range.

To answer the question though, I think it would be a mistake to have no re-raising range when faced with his turn raise. It makes it so that I never get to win pots unless I have the best hand, since I can't lead river into him very credibly.
Maximilian Rôfls 12 years, 1 month ago
Is his river valuebet with A3 standard? you look very diamond heavy when you bet-call turn, I guess he expected you to lead your flushes on the river and that's why he bet? or is a valuebet regardless? and he sometines is check-raise bluffed on the river as you said because he can't have many flushes with that line.
dhara111 12 years, 1 month ago
I'm curious to when you say, in regards to check shoving the river with the flush in the last hand "I can certainly have plenty of bluffs here" what bluffs can you have? and what do you think you fold out? Also, I was wondering why you discount him raising the turn with his non SD diamonds?
james 12 years, 1 month ago
*not Phil* If we're going to check raise bluff that river the only hands I can really think of to do it with would be a hand like A10/A9 with a diamond. Everything else is two pair, a straight or a flush really. With that in mind, I would think that when we check raise the river Kanu should have a really hard time calling with his specific hand just because of how hard it is for us to show up with something that both needs to bluff and actually does it.
Phil Galfond 12 years, 1 month ago
Yeah, as James said, I could turn Ax into a bluff. It's also conceivable I show up with KT or Q9 or something more random. Even if I can't show up with some (I probably wouldn't ever play Qx that way), I think he could still assume it's possible.
Mike Ferrell 12 years, 1 month ago
@dharalll- i agree that it's really hard for us to get to the river w/ much air here as well. wrt villain not raising turn w/ diamonds, it's really just not a spot where people raise 9 out type hands because it just totally totally sucks when you get shoved on there. imo you're much better off taking a hand that can't profitably call again (something w/ fewer outs and no real SD value), like JTo if you want to have more bluffs in your range there.

@james- not sure if u meant "if the board were different, A9/ATdd would make sense," but the Ad is on the board in this hand, so A9/ATdd are not possible fwiw
Adrian Milroy 12 years, 1 month ago
WRT to 65dd hand - I don't particularly like the idea of overbet shoving the turn here. What I hate about it is that we are 2X potting to ship. If our ship was a PSB only, I would like shoving a lot more... Other than Kanu deciding to raise A8-AK on the turn for value, with plans of checking down the river (which is kind of weird and I wouldn't expect that from him given his style of play, and the early-ness of the match), we are looking at A3, a slowplayed monster on the flop, or pure air. I agree that its unlikely that he has something like 97dd (bigger diamonds have showdown value, mid diamonds with no gutshots or SD value may see a point to raise this turn) but I think its safe to say we can eliminate diamonds from his range.

If we were to shove the turn, his air, and small % of AK-A8 would fold, and we'd get snapped by 2pr+ and be reduced to 8-11 outs. If we call, 25% of the time we win vs that small % of AK-A8 (but get no river value), still make money from his 2pr+ (as we already saw in this video) and have him bluff all diamonds which we are waiting to catch. The issue is, if we brick, do we call? If we are leaning towards folding, do we call on 5 river?

On another note, I agree with you Phil that you should've shipped the river, but I don't think Kanu's calling. He's made a very strong one-way bet, 1/2 of his remaining stack. I don't see him thinking that you can turn a made hand into a bluff there (as james already showed) when he is so committed. I grant that its possible to bluff this river, albeit a very risky and deep-minded play, but I think he would let u get away with it. One might think that he's trying to bluff the diamonds, instead of value-betting 2pr+ (very std), and gravitate towards calling with our AT-A7. At least that may be how Kanu sees your reaction towards his bet. I find the psychology of this river complicated and little confusing to be honest.

I'd like to know your thoughts of calling/shoving on the turn. And assuming you call the turn, a little breakdown of what's going to happen on rivers and why? Thanks.
Phil Galfond 12 years, 1 month ago
I agree that the psychology behind a river raise in my spot is very interesting. With Kanu and I not having any history, and me not knowing anything about his thought process other than that he's an NL sicko, I think it kind of just becomes a somewhat random guessing game.

I realize that the turn shove would be an overbet. Hmmm. I guess we could not have a shoving range here, and only have calling and smaller 3betting ranges. That would probably be better, you're right.

When I call turn with 65, if the river bricks off, I likely just c/f. I think I'd have trouble on a 5 river, as I'd feel more obligated to call even though the 5 does almost nothing for me against his value range. On a 6, I'd have to check, I think. The decision between x/c and x/r is tough. The downside of x/r is that he'll check back some counterfeited 2pair, so maybe my it's a little too ambitious, but I think that with the flush missing, he may be able to make some hero calls (if he finds enough worse hands to VB in the first place). Yeah, I think x/c on a 6.
Michael 11 years, 9 months ago

"One might think that he's trying to bluff the diamonds, instead of value-betting 2pr+ (very std), and gravitate towards calling with our AT-A7. At least that may be how Kanu sees your reaction towards his bet. I find the psychology of this river complicated and little confusing to be honest. "

If Phil or anyone could expand on this concept in on the river I'd love to hear it.  I find the psychology confusing too because I agree when we have a hand like AT-A7 with a diamond in it we should turn it into a bluff here but if we do think he's bluffing w/diamonds calling obv > shoving...

scout123 12 years, 1 month ago
@35:19 Im wondering about the 25dd hand. Do you think that checking back our entire range on the ace card is ok, given that the ace hits them a decent amount? They should at least have A5, maybe A9 and possibly other combos of Ax a decent amount of the time. What do you think?
Phil Galfond 12 years, 1 month ago
While I agree that I should give up more often on an Ace than many other cards, I think that having 5 high and no blockers to flushdraws means that this is the one hand I should bluff with if I chose to bluff with any (which I need to)
aurora446 12 years, 1 month ago
19min 78o vs K7
You mess around on dry boards (donk leading and as in this case C/R Flop).
Kanu checks back K7, which is a very strong hand in his Range - Also he can rep Bluffs as the hand played out.
You didnt comment on him checking back, dont you think this is strange?
My first thougth was, that he is trying to gain information here what you re exactly up to on dry boards.

the conflict I have with this argument is: as I understand Kanu is a GTO player and this Information gain would only be valuable to an exploiitive strategy.

What are your thoughts?
Phil Galfond 12 years, 1 month ago
I think betting in his spot here would only make sense if I'm x/r midpair or ace high type hands often, and he thinks that I think he's floating my x/r often.

Since I should be somewhat polarized, there isn't much value in a turn bet. I'll be folding almost all worse hands (that I'd play the flop that way with)

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